Downtown Church - the unified discussion thread

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Downtown Church - the unified discussion thread

Postby Russell » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:12 am

Now that Downtown Church is "out there", I thought I'd play pseudo-moderator and create a unified thread for discussing the record. Here are the existing threads that precede this thread:

Patty's Recording the New Album NOW!!!

"Move Up" from Downtown Church

First listen of Downtown Church - NPR

Downtown Church

Patty Goes Gospel

Downtown Church- reviews

Let me know if there are any other existing threads that might be added to this list. In the meantime, to start things off:

Current Amazon.com current sales rankings have Downtown Church at #1 in Folk music, #2 in Country music and (most significantly) #13 in all music sales. Not bad for a gospel album.
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Postby keith from ny » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:30 pm

LOL, thanks Russell!

So far I really really like just about everything on it, although I'm not quite sure how I Smell A Rat qualifies as gospel. Amazing to hear Patty totally blazing through the faster soulful numbers with some great backup vocalists, and the duets with Emmylou and especially Julie are both exquisite. I also give Patty a lot of credit for taking on Waiting For My Child without Mavis, and she does an incredible job with it.
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Postby Arlene » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:15 pm

Ummmm-- just my personal view but I kind of like having separate threads such as one which "just" collects published reviews, and a different one "just" for lyrics for a particular song, and a different one in where people reflect on their general reactions to the album.

On reflection, I think my OCD and Russell's OCD are in slight conflict :wink: 8)



P.S. I find that a little OCD is often a useful trait for a lawyer to have....
Last edited by Arlene on Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Russell » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:17 pm

keith from ny wrote:I'm not quite sure how I Smell A Rat qualifies as gospel.

gos⋅pel [gos-puhl] – noun
1. the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2. the story of Christ's life and teachings, esp. as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
3. (usually initial capital letter) any of these four books.
4. something regarded as true and implicitly believed: to take his report for gospel.
5. a doctrine regarded as of prime importance: political gospel.
6. glad tidings, esp. concerning salvation and the kingdom of God as announced to the world by Christ.
7. (often initial capital letter) Ecclesiastical. an extract from one of the four Gospels, forming part of the Eucharistic service in certain churches.
8. gospel music.


Considering the observations of the first-person protagonist of "I Smell A Rat", to wit:

a. the antagonist will not tell the protagonist where he/she has been
b. there is whiskey rolling all down the chin of the antagonist
c. the antagonist is stumbling down the hall and bumping his/her head up against the wall

the assertions of the protagonist, to wit:

a. that the antagonist has been having himself/herself a ball
b. that the protagonist smells a rat
c. that the antagonist better watch out

are unquestionably things regarded by the protagonist as true and implicitly believed, thus gospel.

I know you're highly knowledgeable about most areas of music, Keith, but it appears that your knowledge of gospel may be somewhat lacking. It also appears that I'm not doing the things I should be doing right now, to wit: working on a motion for summary judgment in which I am twisting the facts to serve the purpose of my client.
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Postby Russell » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:34 pm

Arlene wrote:Ummmm-- just my personal view but I kind of like having separate threads such as one which "just" collects published reviews, and a different one "just" for lyrics for a particular song, and a different one in where people reflect on their general reactions to the album.

On reflection, I think my OCD and Russell's OCD are in conflict :wink: :roll: 8)

Your points are well taken, counsel, particularly the one concerning the OCD. I definitely agree on keeping discussions of particular songs under "Songs & Music", which is why I didn't include the "Coming Home to Me" thread in the links. As far as a separate string for published reviews, maybe so. We'll see how things play out. I think my main purpose was to move the many discussions out of "Hot Off the Presses", but with my OCD, I never know for sure why I do anything.
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Downtown Church - the unified...

Postby jmp31 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:53 pm

Please tell me what OCD stands for, guys! And why it matters..
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Re: Downtown Church - the unified...

Postby TontoBronto » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:13 pm

jmp31 wrote:Please tell me what OCD stands for, guys! And why it matters..
Jane

OCD is "Ornery Counselor Disorder"==== a psychological imbalance that causes counselors to object to whatever another counselor says. :wink:

OK, it's actually "obsessive-compulsive disorder" (which Arlene sometimes claims to have, but the fact that her bootleg collection ISN'T alphabetized and cross-referenced chronologically suggests otherwise.).
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Re: Downtown Church - the unified...

Postby Russell » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:37 pm

Tonto Yoder wrote:
jmp31 wrote:Please tell me what OCD stands for, guys! And why it matters..
Jane

OCD is "Ornery Counselor Disorder"==== a psychological imbalance that causes counselors to object to whatever another counselor says. :wink:

OK, it's actually "obsessive-compulsive disorder" (which Arlene sometimes claims to have, but the fact that her bootleg collection ISN'T alphabetized and cross-referenced chronologically suggests otherwise.).

Actually, Arlene's OCD is uniquely directed to obfuscation so that the original intent of this thread is lost in an unrelated discussion, i.e., to hijack this thread, to wit:

<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rn5-VN3SH1o&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rn5-VN3SH1o&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>

NOW BACK TO DOWNTOWN CHURCH.
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Postby saturdayboy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:42 pm

LOL.
just listen to the new album in it's entirety. way better than i had hoped for.
my only regret is that they didn't cover any soul stirrers songs, patty being such a big sam cooke fan. maybe she'll add some during the tour.
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Postby marybeth » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:00 am

Oh yay it's like old times around this place! :-D For the record, I like having a separate reviews thread as well!

My first impressions of Downtown Church have been very positive, with just a few I'm not thrilled with--for some reason, the Spanish one leaves me cold. But I LOVE the one you guys hate wth the dudes singing in the background. I love the originals, especially with Julie Miller singing in the background, awesome. "Had My Way" was already a favorite of mine from PPM days and I love what she does with it, as well as "Wade in the Water" and "Waiting for My Child to Come Home."

One little quibble--deepest apologies to Emmylou Harris fans--but I sometimes want her to take back her harmony vocal not to overpower the main singer....(still luv ya Arlene! And I still wear my Emmylou sweatshirt!)
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Postby Arlene » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:25 am

No offense taken, MB, but i think there's a big difference between a prominent harmony vocal verging on a duet, and an "overpowering" one. Personnaly, I love Emmylou's harmony vocals on Little Fire (and Trapeze, and Mary, and Truth No.2 and Long Ride Home).

I never understand why someone uses a great vocalist like Patty (or Emmylou) for a relatively minor backing vocal such as Patty's on Amy Cook's Hotel Lights or Patty's on Matt Morris's Bloodlines or Emmylou's (or Patty on the ACL version) on Elvis Costello's Crooked Line. If you're going to the trouble of bringing these major talents into your recording sessions, I'm all in favor of letting them "do their thing."

And MB, just as we've had lots of opportunities to hear Trapeze live without Emmylou's harmony, I think it's likely we'll have lots of opportunities to hear Little Fire live without Emmylou's harmony vocals. (If anything, I'm sort of disappointed that they didn't perform the song together live during the 3 Girls and Their Buddy tour.)

And okay-- here's my honest but heretical thought; Downtown Church is far and away my least favorite Patty album. I love a lot of the songs, especially Coming Home To Me, Little Fire, House of Gold, Never Grow Old, All Creatures of Our God and King, and We Shall All Be Reunited, but I just can't get excited about the "hard-core" gospel music with the McCrary sisters (even though I appreciate that they're GREAT singers), and the Raul Malo number in Spanish does nothing for me. Guess I'm just a heathen.

In my view, this is an incredibly worthy and noble release, but there's at least five or six numbers I'll regularly skip. I'd NEVER say that about ANY other album by Patty....
"You've got to sing like you don't need the money, love like you'll never get hurt. You've got to dance like no one is watching. It's gotta come from the heart, if you want it to work."
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Postby TontoBronto » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:59 am

Russell wrote:
keith from ny wrote:I'm not quite sure how I Smell A Rat qualifies as gospel.

gos⋅pel [gos-puhl] – noun
1. the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2. the story of Christ's life and teachings, esp. as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
3. (usually initial capital letter) any of these four books.
4. something regarded as true and implicitly believed: to take his report for gospel.
5. a doctrine regarded as of prime importance: political gospel.
6. glad tidings, esp. concerning salvation and the kingdom of God as announced to the world by Christ.
7. (often initial capital letter) Ecclesiastical. an extract from one of the four Gospels, forming part of the Eucharistic service in certain churches.
8. gospel music.


Considering the observations of the first-person protagonist of "I Smell A Rat", to wit:

a. the antagonist will not tell the protagonist where he/she has been
b. there is whiskey rolling all down the chin of the antagonist
c. the antagonist is stumbling down the hall and bumping his/her head up against the wall

the assertions of the protagonist, to wit:

a. that the antagonist has been having himself/herself a ball
b. that the protagonist smells a rat
c. that the antagonist better watch out

are unquestionably things regarded by the protagonist as true and implicitly believed, thus gospel.

I know you're highly knowledgeable about most areas of music, Keith, but it appears that your knowledge of gospel may be somewhat lacking. It also appears that I'm not doing the things I should be doing right now, to wit: working on a motion for summary judgment in which I am twisting the facts to serve the purpose of my client.

Is this a joke? Did you forget the little :wink: ?
If not, it's the most pretentious post I've read in years.

As for constructive criticism, I'd agree with Keith that "Rat" seems an odd inclusion. I happen to love the song and prefer it to several others on the CD that seem more traditionally gospel, but it seems like it would fit better on a different CD.
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Postby Turk » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:36 am

Arlene the Heathenite wrote:And okay-- here's my honest but heretical thought; Downtown Church is far and away my least favorite Patty album. I love a lot of the songs, especially Coming Home To Me, Little Fire, House of Gold, Never Grow Old, All Creatures of Our God and King, and We Shall All Be Reunited, but I just can't get excited about the "hard-core" gospel music with the McCrary sisters (even though I appreciate that they're GREAT singers), and the Raul Malo number in Spanish does nothing for me. Guess I'm just a heathen.

In my view, this is an incredibly worthy and noble release, but there's at least five or six numbers I'll regularly skip. I'd NEVER say that about ANY other album by Patty....

Fellow heathenite here. And this. Is my sentiment to a T.

Patty has a great voice, suitable for whatever style of music she decides to dabble in. I also think that Buddy Miller did a good job in producing this record to accommodate such a novelty.

It pains me to say this, but after a few days of listening, and the record hasn't even been released yet, I'm bored with Downtown Church.

And I agree that I Smell A Rat feels out of place here. This should have been an official unrelease or an incentive bonus cut or something.'

Hope in a few months Patty will have gotten this out of her system and she'll concentrate on that album of originals.
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Postby Russell » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:22 am

Tonto Yoder wrote:Is this a joke? Did you forget the little :wink: ?
If not, it's the most pretentious post I've read in years.

Definitely a joke - that's the reason for the last sentence. I hardly think "I Smell A Rat" is gospel. As Patty noted, the song gives something for the skeptics. I actually like the song's inclusion because it keeps the album from being too heavy - sort of fits the "Children Running Through" concept.
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Postby Russell » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:28 am

Arlene wrote:I never understand why someone uses a great vocalist like Patty (or Emmylou) for a relatively minor backing vocal such as Patty's on Amy Cook's Hotel Lights or Patty's on Matt Morris's Bloodlines or Emmylou's (or Patty on the ACL version) on Elvis Costello's Crooked Line. If you're going to the trouble of bringing these major talents into your recording sessions, I'm all in favor of letting them "do their thing."

I agree completely. I've seen reviews mentioning that Patty's vocals aren't prominent enough in Jack Ingram's "Seeing Stars". I also think Emmylou's vocals in "Little Fire" are great.
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