Yusuf Islam a/k/a Cat Stevens

Yes, there's a whole world of music out there besides Patty.

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Postby PCStuff » Mon May 18, 2009 4:50 pm

Kevin, I didn't say this was a political thing, I just used an example of an aspect of many artists that I feel strongly against certain of their viewpoints, yet I am able to compartmentalize that and not let it jeopardize embracing other aspects of their humanity, such as their artistic expression.

You may not like my characterization that comments in this thread towards Cat Stevens are ones of irrational hatred, but it is certainly not rational love. You do not have to write the specific words "I hate Cat Stevens," but the net effect of your writings and actions are coming from hate, not love. Rationality would allow you to take the time and look at the man's more detailed responses and explanations either on his own website, or summarized on this WIKI page about him.

Irrational hatred prevents people from being able to give someone the benefit of the doubt, or forgive them once they had a chance to explain/clarify something that happened. In this case, it is clear that he does not prepresent the tabloid story as his actual viewpoint. So if this assumption that he wants Rushdie killed is not his actual, thoughtful position, why are you not able to let go of your hatred that blinds you in a totality that even prevents being able to enjoy his music? Further reading certainly does not present as clear cut and diabolically evil a characterization as you would have everyone believe.

The comparison to the Dixie Chicks was used to illustrate the mechanism of irrational hatred. People didn't like Natalie's comments, so they set about to destroy the artists.

So you others need an exact comparison of some artist who endorsed/supported killing someone for my characterization of irrational hatred to be valid? OK, you will love this new argument.

I have heard a number of artists support all forms and stages of abortion. While I am not in the "a human life begins at the moment of conception" camp, I do believe that third trimester and partial birth abortion is murder where an infant's survival is guaranteed with mild to moderate neonatal hospital support.

So now we have an argument where many artists believe consistently, and unwaiveringly in a mother's right to end a baby's life for something as trivial as it would be difficult to deal with. They do not clarify/recant their position on this matter, or deny that it represents their thoughtful stance, as Cat did. In this example, where I (and many millions of other people) believe that some liberal artists endorse infanticide--and feel strongly about it--I can still enjoy their music.

I'm not sure what Rush, Coulter, or Franken have to do with any of this, except that it sounds like someone wants to always go into a political attack mode. I can see examples of both rational and irrational points from all of those people. Generally when one is driven by narrow minded, broad brush, emotional, stereotypical expectations they go around trying to "lock in" what kind of a person someone must be, and how others should treat them. They would characterize these people in manners similar to how some in this thread have portrayed Cat Stevens...even campaigning against being able to enjoy their separate artistic products.

All of you have a nice day!
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Postby Rob » Mon May 18, 2009 4:52 pm

outta wrote:Kevin, do you really need a marriage certificate? That's a piece of paper ... there's no love on the dotted line ... the love is in your heart.

Gay marriage is about far more than a dotted line. Leaving aside the fact it's an issue of dignity and equality, there are plenty of legal issues relating to medical decision-making authority, inheritance rights, the ability to adopt children, etc., etc..

I agree about the love in the heart, but there are numerous other issues.
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Postby Rob » Mon May 18, 2009 5:15 pm

I'm starting to get irrational about PC's posts.
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Postby PCStuff » Mon May 18, 2009 5:17 pm

Now that we are totally off into unrelated topics, I personally have no problem with gay/lesbian marriage, and wholeheartedly support lifetime partners having full legal access, inheritance, next of kin/medical decision making that are currently only granted to heterosexuals. Even states that have gay marriage laws in effect do not get the major (federal) benefits that us hetero's take for granted.

However, when you go back hundreds/thousands of years, marriage was almost exclusively a religious ceremony. As a religious ceremony, it is governed by the religious texts which uniformly regard homosexual behavior as wrong/sinful.

Fast forward where the purely religious union of marriage got collapsed into a whole separate civil governmental structure which requires/bestows civil beneifits, rights, and responsibilities...that is where the problem started. Religious followers have sourcebook references against gay marriage that do not get voted on or changed. So I can also fully understand why they feel the religious institution of marriage is only satisfied between a man and woman.

Like abortion, gay marriage will forever be a polarizing issue as long as there are followers of the current age old religions.
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Postby PCStuff » Mon May 18, 2009 5:18 pm

Rob wrote:I'm starting to get irrational about PC's posts.


See, now we have at least one member admitting to irrationality existing in this thread. You are half-way there.
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Postby Rob » Mon May 18, 2009 5:48 pm

PCStuff wrote:
Rob wrote:I'm starting to get irrational about PC's posts.


See, now we have at least one member admitting to irrationality existing in this thread. You are half-way there.

And we have another who refuses to admit there was no hate.
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Postby Rob » Mon May 18, 2009 5:52 pm

Here's a perfect example I just saw that illustrates the importance of the dotted line and the certificate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/healt ... ml?_r=1&hp
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Postby RightOverThisMess » Mon May 18, 2009 6:10 pm

outta wrote:Or Coulter? Or Franken? There's little to no rational logic to most of their tirades.


This is an unrelated topic, so I'll keep this short and sweet.

Coulter and Franken are NOT one and the same when it comes to irrational tirades and abuse of political power.
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Postby outta » Mon May 18, 2009 7:06 pm

RightOverThisMess wrote:
outta wrote:Or Coulter? Or Franken? There's little to no rational logic to most of their tirades.


This is an unrelated topic, so I'll keep this short and sweet.

Coulter and Franken are NOT one and the same when it comes to irrational tirades and abuse of political power.


That would be your opinion and I respect that. Since I mentioned their names, I made them part of the discussion. I should have elaborated. I simply used their names because, in my opinion, they have all abused their power and influence -- at one time or another (and another and another) -- to spread their beliefs in a disrepectful, even hateful, manner. And, as I said, I would be curious to hear their take on the subject.
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Postby outta » Mon May 18, 2009 7:08 pm

Rob wrote:I'm starting to get irrational about PC's posts.


I'm starting to get irrational about some things that seem perfectly rational.
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Postby Russell » Mon May 18, 2009 7:21 pm

All right already! Those who want to carry on one or more of the many non-music related topics that somehow became part of this thread can take it/them to The Watercooler where it/they belongs/belong. This started out as a post about some new music by someone other than Patty, which explains why I posted in in the category "Music. (Other than Patty!)" It made sense then, it makes sense now. I enjoyed the music when I heard it then and I continue to enjoy it now -- it is, literally, music to my ears. If the music just doesn't click for you, hey, let us know about it. I'm possibly the polar opposite of Turk on the song "Roadsinger", but I appreciate his comments - and comments like those belong here. If there's something outside the music itself that keeps you from enjoying it (like somehow believing that the musician was running around madly yelling "kill, kill, kill"), that seems like an appropriate comment to make on a thread like this. But why belabor it in what seems like an effort to keep others from enjoying the music or making up their own mind? And, geez, personal attacks on each other on a music thread? As I say, get thee to The Watercooler (if not the woodshed).

For now, I'll at least attempt to close this MUSIC thread with the same MUSIC that a simply wonderful MUSICIAN (I think we're all united on that) closed her main sets with during her recent mini-tour - and should I add, may we all be reunited (Oooh, how I love this young woman AND this song - so I'll use any screwball excuse to post the video):

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Postby outta » Mon May 18, 2009 7:40 pm

Nicely said, Russell.
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Postby PCStuff » Mon May 18, 2009 11:06 pm

Patty melts me into a big puddle. What an angel!

Thanks for that perfect ending, Russel.
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Postby marybeth » Tue May 19, 2009 6:58 am

Are you running for moderator, Russell? :wink: You'd make a good one.
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Postby PCStuff » Thu May 28, 2009 2:07 am

Now that I got the new Roadsinger CD, and have played it 3 times, I love it very much. It makes me happy.
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